Too much of the "God" thing??
Folks,
On quite a few occasions, in the middle of a discussion, have I had people interject me, saying, “Don’t bring in God here”. What they tacitly say is, “We are talking about an issue concerning humans as it’s actually played out in reality, so don’t talk about God here”. The supposition is that the introduction of “God” chips away at the quotient of realism involved in human issues and that these issues can be best addressed only if the ameliorative measures are targeted from just within the scope of the human realm. The latest European Union Constitution was framed with deliberate care to not have any reference to God, and it seems that the notion of “Remove God from the public square” is gaining increasing popularity.
So, who or what is God?? Is He an entity so separate from the human sphere that He’s not really needed when human issues are addressed?? If He isn’t that separate, do we have a choice to pick when and where we want to use Him and His principles?? If we have that choice, then is the implication that God isn’t really in power over all the humans true (for if He is, we would then not have the power to pick and choose Him!)??
The increasingly popular thinking is, “We humans know well enough to make laws for ourselves; God has no place here”. Who among us would feel comfortable with a machine that functions not by taking commands from the designer (or from an operator who gives commands consistent with the intentions of the designer) but by internally choosing to do whatever it wants?? Such a machine will not only be chaotic in its function but also very dangerous to approach because it no longer takes commands from its designer. Isn’t it what humanity would head towards if it doesn’t recognize its Designer and acknowledge as well as submit itself to His authority??
Now, am I implying that the Constitutions all over the world should be transformed into theological documents or that every page of it should be replete with “God”?? Never! That would be dangerous as well as disastrous. However, if the human laws are framed by deliberately keeping God and His principles out and by shaking our fists at His commands, then the resulting system will be one of moral chaos. The emphasis is not on the word "God" but on Godliness.
Do we pick and choose the areas where we want God, depending upon how comfortable we feel in having Him there?? Doesn't He deserve a complete submission from our end in every area - not just in a select few issues??
Thanks to everyone who commented on my previous blog entry. Even as I am looking forward to the comments to this one, you are welcome to continue the discussion on the previous one too.
posted by Wes @ 3/23/2006 10:33:00 AM
37 comments
37 Comments:
Wes. We have a seperation of Church and State for a reason. It is to keep God out of the inner workings of out country. I live in a Free country last time I checked, and Freedom to me means that I am alloed the right to believe in a god or to not believe in a god. I choose the latter.
I believe in fairies and hobgoblins more than I do a god. You give him your power and that is FINE, but do not expect me to give power over MY life to anyone other than myself...
To each his own Wes, to each his own...
Hey, I attended a lecture last night on "Freedom, Law, and Moral Community" by an Oxford theologian. I think you might be interested in her writings on Christian politics, etc. Her name's Joan Donovan.
As a revolutionary communist, and obviously an atheist, I acknowledge no god. And no, I don't want to talk about god because you can not prove the existence of god and talk of god is about as useful as talking about invisible bunnies.
Maybe, they are invisible bunnies, maybe not, but I can't prove there are so I don't bring it up (unless I'm drunk!)
"god" is an abstract concept.
I believe socialism should allow people the freedom to believe in god, but also the freedom to not believe in god.
Even if we allowed god in public places, which god? There are a myriad of religions in this country, which god would you put up? The Mormon god? The Catholic god? The Muslim god, the Wiccan goddess? The Buddha? Vishnu?
See my point?
Why should god be a in a public place? Hey, I am commie. You don't see us arguing for statues of Marx, Lenin and Mao in public spaces.
Wes, this is a good blog. What is the relationship between celticfire and ladycelticfire?
Hello and God blessings to everyone. Wes this is a good post that pretty much shows where the world is these days. It seems that almost on a day to day basis, I hear of people wanting to take God out of everything even to the point that if Im praying a blessing over my food in public, someone wants to have me arrested or even persecuted..yes persecuted these are the times we are living in. From the experiences that I have in my own life, the times where I wanted God to be absent was when I either wanted to do something sinful or take out anger and frustrations on someone or something. That way I felt like I had no one to be accountalbe to and no one to punish me. This is where I see the world going. Honestly when thinking this way, we already know we are wrong and just basically dont want to have to reap for it. The devil has made most of us think that if we get prayer out of school, God out of the constitution, pledge of allegiance, television and media, we somehow escape accoutability from Him for our actions. It was only when I submitted myself totally to God that I experience true happiness in good times and bad times., because if you let God teach you, He will teach you how to have joy in good times and bad times. For whatever reason we try to hold on to our lives and our views because we fear that we loose something. In the bible Jesus states that who so ever gives up his life for my sake will find life. There has to be a willingness on our part to get to know God. He will never force Himself upon anyone because He wants to lead in love and not rule by force. So I encourage all of us to get to know God for ourselves and stop waiting for some thunderous, earthquaking, sky cracking moment to believe God exist. Honestly when that happens we don't want to be left here to endure that. Just as much as God is love He is also a God of wrath. Not to scare anyone but it is true. All of this is shown in His word. But as I have said, God gives us a chance to submit to Him and take yoke upon us. So to say there is too much God is dangerous. If we look at everything going on in the world today....we need more of God. The reason He has not just come down and just taken care of all the bad? Who knows.....but also have we really asked Him to? As I said before, it is by faith that we please God. Not by knowing His every move. So I encourage all of us to seek God and get to know Him for ourselves personally.
Wesley this blog on God is thought-provoking and nicely concocted.
The views of Lady Celticfire are mostly secular. And those of Mr.Celtic fire are athiestic. They represent just the normal and natural state of human mind . Because, according to The Bible, the natural mind is at enemity with God. This they may not, and need not agree.Because it is a fact proved through the life-experiences of countless persons down the lanes of history.
The truth about God may not be proved, but it can defenitly be experienced. It is like saying, I may not be able to prove that suger is sweet,
but I can experiment and experience the sweetness of suger.
This is the case with Appostle St.Paul and scores of others like Sadhu.Sunder singh of India.
Any one who HONESTLY seeks God will be met by Him and receive New Life through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Wes: You ask an excellent question. I would never say "enough of the God thing" to a friend, I would just get a new friend if they were that annoying. I routinely have Security toss evangelical employees and their little tracts into the goddamn street when they get on my fucking nerves. It's not a God thing. Celticfirelike atheists get on my nerves with their u-can't-prove-there's-a-god-so-there pseudointellectual bullshit too.
The problem, IMHO, is that both sides (but evangelicals are the worst) can't hold a decent, lively, stimulating openminded conversation. Most are SO sure they know the flat, 2D truth that they are closed off to engaging discussion with those who have a different perspective.
It's like Christian-fucking-music. Jeez! I hear some great acoustic guitar riff, or even blues, and I leave the station on. Then the singing starts (OOOh Salvation! Light! Redeemer! The Path! Blah-hosanna-Blah!) ARRGH!! It's christian music! Designed to sound like real music! It says nothing. Eleanor Rigby is christian music, Teach your children well. Peace Train. Not that self-righteous insular bullshit that makes you feel all holy in your minivans with the "Support our troops" ribbon next to the soccer ball decal.
I used 2-3 F-bombs and a "bullshit" for a reason. Many Christians are so offended by these words they would write me off and avoid me as a bad person. You get all up in arms about swear words and drinking alcohol, when you should be getting upset and outraged by motherfuckers like Benny Hinn and Jimmy Swaggert and nutjob Pat Robertson who drain the bank accounts of those who turn to them for help. Bring me Benny Hinn's head on a pike and you can talk about the God thing all you want. Or when you can answer the question Who WOULD Jesus Bomb? In other words, maybe you can't get permission to talk the talk because you ain't walking the walk.
Richardquickesq@yahoo.com http://richardquick.blogspot.com
Security toss evangelical employees and their little tracts into the street -
but, still they continue doing their evangelism why? - is it not because they are even ready to die for CHRIST? - why do they have to do this unless they beleive GOD is real and unless they love others to an extent that they wud do anything for them to get saved?
The words in the song is all that matters in any Christian song. Like any other music Christian music also ranges from pop to rock, jazz and all other kinds. It is the fact that the song writers and musicians use their GOD given talents in various fields to praise GOD with their songs.
I beleive in getting to know the facts about any individual personally or directly from that concerned person instead of beleiving what i hear from the wind.
Thinking and deciding upon a person based on just hear say can be wrong at the end. Whatever we just heard from the wind cannot be true at all times. Intead, getting to know directly from the concerned person and then base our beleifs makes real sense
The easiest way to avoid the awkwardness that seems to manifest itself when 'God' is bought up in conversation is to simply avoid the word and stick to the ideals.
That way, your opinion will be considered without any preconceptions by the listener.
Son of Man, We are a happily married, monogamous couple :D, but eventhough we share some of the same views, we each speak for ourselves...
g.moses
How can you possibly define atheism and secularism as the natural state of affairs????
You "believers" are the strong majority! Very very few people are atheists compared to the LARGE majority of people that "believe" in a higher power.
My atheism is connect to MY politics, that states religion is a drug freely passed out to neutralize us from taking part in real life.
So true to me, its an axiom.
Seekye,
If there are people who would want to persecute you simply because you say a prayer in a resteraunt, then that is ALSO wrong. I think that public prayer is a too each his own format. What I am saying is that it should NOT be forced upon others. In other words, if you or if the state was to begin requiring prayer either in school or at work, then that would be wrong. But if a group of school children want to take it upon themselves to have a Bible study at lunch, then let them do it.
I am NOT knocking religion, what I am knocking is the fact that it is AT times, forced upon non believers. It is not my right to tell you when and where YOU can pray, but it is NOT your right to tell me I have to pray. As for children, that is BEST left to the parents to decide what is BEST taught to their children in the PUBLIC tax payer funded school system...
This really garbage. You Christians whine and moan about your persuctution, but completely ignore - or partiicpate in REAL perspecution against homosexuals, lesbians, transgenered and bisexual people. I am straight so dont make that the issue.
I am REALLY tired of hearing that homosexuality is a "sin" because your pathetic bible says it is. Your bible is a collection of writings by various men from pre-feudal times. The bible talks about raping women and killing babies, and GOD applauds this!
Richard, I have to agree on a lot of what you are saying. My husband is an athiest YES, but he to his own conclusions based on his own life experiences. I don't believe in a God either. I do believe in the folklore of God but I also beleive in the folklore of where vampires derived. I think both have a place in conversation.
Personally, I do beleive in science. This is something that can be studied and studied again and conclusions can be made that are concrete. Newtons laws of physics, Galileo (spelling??) etc.
I am an open minded person, if proof can be given to me, REAL proff, perhaps i would start to believe a bit more. BUTT that being said, I also don't feel it is my right to tell individuals what they can a can't beleive in , just as long as they dont infringe on my rights to beleive the way I want to believe.
As for the music you mentioned... I agree that alot of the Folk music and "Hippie" music, was WAY more Christian than the ACTUAL Christian music and they NEVER mentioned God LOL
Some quotes from you "heavenly" bible:
"This son of ours is disloyal and defiant. He does not heed us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Thereupon the men of his town shall stone him to death.” (Deuteronomy 21)
“If anyone insults his father or mother, he shall be put to death.” (Leviticus 20)
“Whoever does work on it [the Sabbath] shall be put to death.” (Exodus 35)
“And to the Israelite woman, speak thus: Anyone who blasphemes God shall bear his guilt; if he also pronounces the name Lord, he shall be put to death. The whole community shall stone him.” (Leviticus 24)
From: GOD - The Original Fascist
Hello and God's blessings to everyone. I have read some of the comments to what has been written since my last entry.
Ladyceltic: When I mentioned being persecuted for praying in public, I meant that we face the "possibility" of being punished for praying in public. So Im sorry if i mislead you. Also, I don't know of any laws that requires that everyone has to pray. As I mentioned before, God does not push Himself upon anyone so we shouldn't. Often times people get overzealous in their attempt to promote Christ with pushy-non biblical tactics. But believe me if you ask God, He will send you someone that has a gentle spirit and witness this to you. All I do is share with those who want to hear about how good God is and how He blesses me in my life. This is mainly done in the way I live my life vs what I say to people. I pray that God provides you with the understanding that you need in your daily endeavors.
Celticfire: I would like to say that persecution is experienced in every community and comes in many forms. Also, it is wrong for a homosexual to be persecuted just like it is for a Christian to be persecuted, we are all God's creation and should be treated fairly. However the truth about our lifestyle is what ever God says in His word about our life. Anything outside of that will eventually lead to destruction. Yeah it is written by man, but so is the constitution that we all measure our freedoms and rights by. So why not have faith in God's word that was written by men after God's own heart? Wasn't the constitution written by men with good intentions? Either way as I stated before the only way we will ever live the truth and know the truth is to seek God and accept his love and guidiance. It is free to receive all we have to do is ask Him. God's blessing to you all.
As to Wes' original point about why most people, even Christians, don't wanna talk God is very simple: Most of them just pretend they believe. I think you are sensing what I've suspected for years: most professed Christians don't really believe, deep down, the rhetoric they spew. I'm not being facetious when I say most of them don't really believe in God or eternal life. For example, "blogger" speaks like it's a big deal Christians are willing to die for Christ. Big friggin' deal. That's no sacrifice... it's a shortcut to eternal bliss, if you believe. If you truly believe, it's no sacrifice at all. Why don't most Christians take "thou shalt not kill" seriously in times of war, like the Amish and Quakers do? How can any Christian support the death penalty, given the commandment against killing? Why aren't they pacifists? Because they don't trust that justice will be meted out after death, because they're not sure there's a God to mete? Why's it such a big deal to settle the abortion issue? If you truly believe in judgement after death, you know that if people are truly murdering unborn children, then God will take care of them in the end. So take a pill. What's the big friggin' tragedy with Terry Schaivo getting unplugged? If you believe, you know 100% that she's with God at the right hand of the only begotten son... You were doing her a favor keeping her hooked up like a human water softener? You certainly act like you gotta settle it all right here and now. Why not turn the other cheek when attacked? Aren't you confident God will sort it all out in the end. Why are you so afraid to die? If you truly have faith, that would not be a scary or sad thing at all.
I believe that most Christians doth protest to much. They certainly don't act like there's truly a God. IMHO, MOST of them are agnostics at best... they are hedging their bets, playing the self righteousness game, manipulating things for their own simplistic view of things.
I think if they truly believed they'd be more interesting and more liberal, and stop arguing stupid shit. But they don't, they aren't and they won't.
That's the definitive word so don't bother disagreeing.
Just kidding about disagreeing. I'd be interested to hear if you Christians suspect this too.
Once, I actually did 'bring in god here' during an arguement.
You should have seen the faces of my co-religious debaters drop.
If Spock had made more of an effort with the beard and robe, they might have believed me.
LOL @ Richard Quick, Millionaire comments -- they're great!
seekyefirst: I'm so happy we can unite together that the oppression of homosexuals is wrong. This makes me want to defend Christians a lot more.
But on the U.S. consitution: I am a communist. I believe in democracy, freedom of speech and even freedom of religion (and not to practice religion), but I think the U.S. version of freedom is crap. The original didn't include women, or non-property owners, and slaves were only 1/3rd of a human! That's not my vision of freedom. In the Soviet Union (under Lenin) women had the vote as early as 1917, many years before the US gave women the vote.
You should have the right to believe in god and practice your religion, but I don't like people like Pat Robertson who demand we are ALL christians...
Seekye: You say you face the "possibility" of being punished. I have to totally disagree. In todays US, I think I face more possibilities of punished than you do. We live in a country that is run by right wing Christian Zealots. Our president takes advise from Pat Robertson... I don't think YOU have anything to worry about. I on the other hand, may. I think Pagan's, Athiests, Agnostics, Muslims, Quakers, Amish etc are the ones who face punishment in today's day and age.
You replied to CF that it isnt right to persecute homosexuals, but you have to admit a WHOLE lot of Christians do it, they also persecute Muslims and non Christians. All I am saying and I have said it before in another blog, is if you personally don't feel this is the way of God, then you should stand up and say no to people like Roberston and Hin. You should be loud in defending your faith against those who would give it a bad name. If someone within a group I am deeply involved in, was going around giving the group a bad name, I would speak LOUDER and would also do something to seperate them from the group.
Let me put it this way, Lets say you are working on a very important project for your job, This is THE project, it will put you on the map. And lets say you have one guy who is taking the message and skewing it to the public. They are making it out to be completly different than the original idea and it is ending up HURTING you project. You would DO something right? You would take measures to get this person as far away from the project as possible? This is what I mean about Christianity. You have all these whack jobs running around ruining the name of Christianity, and yet you all are sitting idely by doing NOTHING... Perhaps I would be more inclined to not be so negetive towards Christians who are TRUELY living the word of God, if they showed some backbone in dealing with those who aren't....
Hello to everyone and God's blessings to you. First let me say I appreciate the level of respect given to me about my posts, eventhough I need to clear somethings up. Number 1, i am not nor will I ever justify the "act" of homosexuality, it is wrong and a sin against God.(Romans 1:24-32) But the people who commit the act deserved the same love, compassion and opportunites as other human beings. God commands us all to love everyone because Christ paid the ultimate price for all of our lives(John 15: 11-13). The job of a true christian is to help win people to Christ with the truth in a generous but honest way(Galatians 6:1-9). This should be done mainly in lifestyle vs what is said. When you really care about someone you tell them the truth according to God, not what just what makes them feel good ignoring the truth.(Proverbs 27:5-6) Sometimes the truth hurts. Honestly I would rather someone tell me the truth about my bad or immoral habits, than to lie to me that it is ok leading me to a destructive and limiting life. Also please don't judge all christians by George Bush, Pat Robertson or anyone else. We are all different individuals with different mindsets. As far as persecution, just look at some of the post and witness how some of the comments of christians are down right insulting. However this is expected (John 15: 17-19) The cursing , name calling and disrupting behavior is not helping bridge any gaps or get any understanding. I have not seen any christian in here curse at the ignorant blogs once. Either way I m not here to justify, only to testify on God's goodness and His grace that is available to all those who want to have it. Although some of us have different opinions and beliefs we have to admit one thing..we all benefit from God's grace, mercy, and creations whether we admit it or not. I only pray that someone will get the opportunity to get to know God personally. From some of the blogs posted there seems to be a lot of anger, hurt and frustration. Guess what? God wants to heal you from that and take your burdens upon His shoulders. It says in His word, "Come unto me, all ye who are heavy laden, take my yoke upon you and learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in heart I will give rest for your soul , for my yoke is easy and my burden is light."(Matthew 11:28-30) Every since I gave over my life, including all my ideas, philosophies, behaviors and ways and taken upon His way listed in His word, I have been blessed with love and peace, knowing that there is someone there for me who loves me more than a mother can love a child. So I encourage all of us, lets come together in love and not war against each other trying to prove our ideas and points. God has already made the way and His existance is evident already without Christians like myself trying to prove it. If He did not exist, there would be no responses at all to this blog. Take care and God bless.
When i look upon my life, i cant even imagine one day without the GRACE of GOD. GOD has been so merciful and gracious to me. I have indulged myself in various sins, and have done a lot of wicked acts. But it is at calvary and the cross i truly realized the existence of GOD and how a person needs forgiveness. Any doubts about GOD, heaven or any other things will be gone if we sincerely seek GOD and ask with a humble spirit "GOD come into my heart".
We may look at people and judge, and every one has some fault within themselves, so there is not point in doing that. But it is rather appropriate to look to GOD and follow HIM. So, let us not look at people and miss the wonderful salvation that GOD has in store for each and every one. I would urge everyone to try and see how good GOD is. May be these many years you may have lived without seeking HIM, but it does not hurt to try and see. It may change your world a whole lot. Christianilty is not a religiion, born in a christian family does not lead one to heaven, rather it is beleiving in the SON JESUS CHRIST, and the born-again experience that leads one to heaven.
Dont take the example of any christian that you may know, take the example of CHRIST.
This all proves why you need to give up your illusions about god and toss the bible in trash. Come on in an join humanity.
"Do not copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing THE WAY YOU THINK. Then you will know what God wants you to do and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect His will really is"(Romans 12:2 NIV)
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what it that good and acceptable and perfect, will of God"(Romans 12:2 King James Version)
Hello everyone,
Sorry for my prolonged silence. Work related tight circumstances kept me from responding to the comments here.
To begin, in response to ladycelticfire’s comment about the separation of Church and State and the freedom to not believe in God – let me tell this, the issue is not whether someone has a right or not to believe in God, but whether it’s really good and wise for one to not believe in God. I don’t believe in legislating that everyone must believe in God. That would not only be wrong but also foolish and disastrous.
Both the celticfires declare that they believe in science and that the whole God related stuff is a bunch of fairytales, and they imply that they might consider believing in God if His existence can be proved. Here’s the difference between science and faith. Science can be proved in the human realm whereas some elements of faith cannot be proved in the same sense. If someone would claim that He can prove his God, I’d have serious doubts on the super-human attributes of what (or whom) he claims is his God. A piece of clay on a pot cannot prove who the potter was, i.e., it does not have the power to prove who made it into a pot. But by staying true to the form and design that the potter intended it to have, it can display some of the characters of its maker (in other words, it can speak for its maker). In a similar way, we humans will never be able to prove the existence of God, but by staying true to how He has designed us to be, we can show forth His Glory.
Faith is “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen” (from the Bible). One might say, “well, then can’t one believe in some arbitrary unseen thing, attach some abstract attributes to it and claim that it is the God??”. Theoretically, one could, and that’s what leads to potential confusions such as those raised by celticfire as to which one among “The Mormon god? The Catholic god? The Muslim god, the Wiccan goddess? The Buddha? Vishnu?” is the true God. The key to resolve this confusion is to simply compare against each other all the different characters on whom Godhood is putatively attached. The space here isn’t sufficient for me to write why Jesus Christ towers over every other person (who once lived or is a figment of human imagination) who is claimed to be God. Most of the Eastern religions are mere results of the creative skills of their poets.
In reference to a few Bible verses quoted by celticfire: – these words clearly portray the wages of sin. The wages of sin is death, and that’s what those verses indicate. But, Jesus Christ, by His death on the Cross, bore on His body the punishment earned by our sins. He took our punishment on our behalf and He also rose victorious over sin and death. His death and resurrection removes the damnatory sting of sin as seen in those verses.
Let me close here. Thanks to everyone for their comments!
- Wes
Wes,
If the pot cannot prove who the potter is, why should it be assumed that the potter is God?
And where is he getting the clay?
Hello ultra toast mosha god,
Thanks for your comment. What I meant was that while the pot can’t prove who the potter was, by staying true to its original design, it could point to the potter. The conclusion about God being the potter is not by a blind assumption but by a sensible look at the attributes of the potter and the design manifested in the pot. My view is that a look at the creations/creatures of the world definitely points to the Creator, who is God. This space is too small to have a full-fledged discussion on the existence of God, but there are resources out there that might be helpful.
marcguyver - Thanks for posting your comment.
- Wes
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Wes,
I do not see how the pot can do anything other than 'stay true to it's original design'. It is a pot; a static, finished object that is incapable of evolving.
With that static nature in mind, how is it possible that numerous different factions have alternating views about how the pot was created?
Hello ultra toast mosha god,
Thanks again for your comment. We are perhaps digging a bit too much into the analogy?? The analogy was not supposed to be a perfect one. Even though the clay is “static”, over a period of time, let’s say that some properties of the soil that make up the clay change. The paint on it could fade. The mutability/immutability of the pot has nothing to do with what I meant to convey using the pot analogy. It seems logical to not let the discussion involve questions about attributes of the object of the analogy that are not the attributes for which the object was chosen for the analogy.
- Wes
From either theological, metaphysical and/or scientific viewpoints, can this Pot call the kettle black. If so, is it right for it to do so?
The pot represents god's creation in your analogy, therefore I would have thought it's construct would be of great importance when you are trying to make a point about your faith.
The potter(god) cannot build the pot with his/her own hand alone; (S)he needs sand and water to make the clay.
A potter will tell you that you cannot determine who built a pot just by looking at it, unless it has been stamped. There is no mark on this Earth to suggest who the potter was, which is why we have this endless, tiresome religious conflict between people have only faith as the clay holding their 'pot' together; Two parts ignorance, one part desperation.
Consider this; All you can tell from determining an antique vase is a fake, is that it wasn't made by who you thought it was, nothing more.
To assume that your definition of the potter is more right than anyone else's promotes disharmony rather than diffusing it.
A person when he found out how real GOD is in his life, and how he wanted to do the WILL of GOD in his life said,,"YOU are the potter, I am the clay, mould me and make me after THY WILL",,, It is the act of total submissive to GOD that is conveyed in that statement, and not the physics of how a pot is being made from clay. That is not the analogy that needs to be used when reading that sentence. This sense of submissiveness will come, when one really experience the presence of GOD.
How can one submit to the will of the creator when one does not actually know what the creators will is?
You know the will of god no more than the Ant who is crushed by the foot of a man.
If you are submitting to that ideal; that the will of god is beyond your fathoming, then you are no more enlightened than I am; a man of no religion.
I have no idea what course the universe is following either.
It doesn't matter if and when we want God in a certain situation or not, he is always there regardless, even with the unbelievers.
I am thankful that he is in every situation, otherwise I may make far more mistakes than I do.
good questions, indeed. But you guys shouldn't be so offended by a little mild dissent from your views. being a communist and an aetheist doesn't mean you are a nihilist. people who find spirituality in things other than jesus are just as loved by him as you, wes, or you,jane, or you,morri. let's remember that pat robertson and jack van impe are the ones with millions of tv viewers,so let's not pretend that we(christians) are the ones being imposed upon. HP
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